For this episode, we talk with former bartender and now brand creator Giuseppe Gallo about the expanding world of Italian aperitivi and liqueurs, including his brands Italicus, Savoia Rosso Americano, and Savoia Orancio.
Italian amari, vermouths, and aperitivo wines have a history spanning back centuries. But these drinks styles are also living categories, continuing to expand in today’s cocktail culture. For this episode, we talk withGiuseppe Gallo (IG: @peppegallo1) about the continuing influence of these Italian drinks, and about his contributions to the category: Italicus Rosolio di Bergamotto, Savoia Rosso Americano, and Savoia Orancio, the latter of which took a top award at this year’s New Orleans Spirits Competition.
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Paul Clarke
Hey everyone, welcome back to Radio Imbibe from Imbibe Magazine. I'm Paul Clarke, Imbibe's Editor-in-Chief.
And one of the events that Imbibe supported earlier this year was the New Orleans Spirits Competition. The competition is held every year under the broader umbrella of Tales of the Cocktail and we've participated every year as a media partner. And I've participated every year as a member of the judging committee, blind tasting through many, many different spirits from producers large and small from around the world to settle on the absolute best range of spirits that year.
This past summer, during the competition, I sat in as a judge in the final round determining what were the best liqueurs and aperitif wines for the year. And the winner of that category was Savoia Orancio, an aperitif wine made in Italy that debuted just a couple of years ago and that really stood out to the judges on the awards committee. I've been thinking a lot about that wine in the months since, how it seemed both familiar but also totally novel, and what it represented for the aperitif and vermouth categories. Which if you dig back through our archives or the magazine and the podcast, you'll see that vermouth and aperitif are also among our favorite things to explore.
So for this episode, I invited Giuseppe Gallo, creator of Savoia Orancio, to join us. I first met Giuseppe many years ago in New Orleans when, at the time, he was working for Martini and Rossi with their line of vermouths. In the years since, he's gone on to found his own company, Ital Spirits, and to create Italicus, which also fills a very intriguing part of the world of aperitif liqueurs, as well as Savoia Rosso Americano, which digs into another style of the aperitivo tradition.
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Paul Clarke
Giuseppe, welcome to Radio Imbibe.
Giuseppe Gallo
Hello, Paul. Hello, everyone at the Imbibe Radio.
Paul Clarke
You know, I'm delighted to have you on. You know, the entire vermouth and aperitif and aperitivo category is something we hold close to our hearts at Imbibe and close to my heart. And you've played such an interesting role in that category over the years and within the larger approach to Italian drinking styles and Italian drinking culture. So before we get into the details of what you're working on and the products that you have, how did you first find yourself coming down this path? I mean, you've worked as a bartender and you're Italian. But when did you realize that there was something there in your drinks culture and in what you're working with that really deserved kind of a bigger spotlight in the world?
Giuseppe Gallo
It was a very defined moment. And thank you so much for this question because it's actually very close to my heart, Paul. It was around 2007-2008. I was the bar manager at the Sanderson Hotel in London. And I got two job offers. One, it was for a vodka brand. Very well established, known vodka brand. And another one, it was from the vermouth, Italian vermouth, Martini Rossi. And economically speaking, the vodka brands will make more sense. It was more cool, was more lifestyle. And, you know, back in the days, at the beginning of the 2000s, it was the hey, vodka days. You know, the famous vodka martini. But for whatever reasons, I got this feeling that for me, as an Italian living abroad, working for an Italian brand, and moreover, going and work for a vermouth. For people like us, Paul, that we've been around, let's say, for a few years, back in the days, vermouth was not a cool or trendy category. It was that thing, that dusty bottle that nobody wants to deal with.
Paul Clarke
Right.
Giuseppe Gallo
And I thought it was a definitely very interesting challenge for me to try to rebuild the vermouth reputation across the world. And moreover, working with an Italian brand where I could expand my knowledge and my network, talking about amaris, vermouth, and aperitivi, not just in Italy or in London, but all across the world. It's exactly what happened for 15 years after that.
Paul Clarke
And like you said, you've worked in bars, you've developed bar programs, and you've worked with big brands in the past. But as you worked within these different spheres, you have this long tradition and these styles that have been developed generations ago. But there's also, we're in 21st century cocktail culture. Where did you see opportunities for kind of exploration or expansion, working within the traditions, but also thinking that we could bring something contemporary to this conversation?
Giuseppe Gallo
My true belief for all these categories has always been that we need to learn from the past, craft with the modern techniques, and looking at the future opportunities. It's exactly what I did with my brands. I know that amaros and vermouth and aperitivi, they are recipes based on family traditions all the hundreds of years. But the reality is that the human being, he never eats and drinks so well and quality as we do today. And I was so lucky in my life that I did actually crack open a few bottles of amaros or vermouth or bitters with more than 80 or 90 years. And I know that the romantic side of soul in all of us would love to say, oh, that stuff back in the days, it was fantastic. The reality is it was undrinkable, it was unbalanced, it was too sweet or too bitter. We never had so many good products, balanced and well crafted. as we have today. Let's learn from the past. Let's use the modern techniques to craft our liquid. But always looking what the next generation is looking for.
Paul Clarke
Now, Italicus was your first product out of the gate in 2016, almost 10 years ago now. When you were developing your idea for this, how much did you turn to that kind of history and heritage that we're just talking about, and how much did you take into account what's happening today in 21st century drinks culture, cocktail culture, and so on?
Giuseppe Gallo
Italicus is... it was... it will be the dream job or project that I wish everybody can experience in their life, because it was the project that they allowed me to speak Italian or made in Italy to all around the world. The brand truly speaks Italian, is inspired by the Roman columns, so we're tracing back to the Romans. The category is a rosolio, the first ever liquor category coming out of Italy, and it’s crafted in this beautiful blue aquamarine bottle that recalls the Amalfi Coast, where I was raised and where I was born. And it championed the bergamot citrus fruits, which is typical from the south of Italy, the Calabria region, which reminds me of the childhood when my mom, she used to cook with bergamot back in the days. So Italicus is that kind of experience that I can only wish to everyone in the world, but for me it was also a commercial opportunity. Back in the days in 2014-15, traveling the world, I could see, spending a lot of time in airports, I could see that most of the perfume that had bergamot citrus orange as a top notes. Now, for people who they understand are tracing back in the trends, we all know that usually trends, they start with perfume, they’re then going in the gastronomy, culinary world, and finally they get to the cocktail world. And I could see bergamot was coming, but nobody was bold enough to bet on bergamot citrus profile. And my goal was to develop a liqueur, a super premium aperitif, 100 percent made in Italy, that will champion the bergamot citrus fruits. So today we can definitely claim that we were the first brand to champion bergamot and in the back bar in the arsenal of a bartender's flavor profile, as we're bringing back the rosolio as a category that didn't exist almost before Italy was spreading back in 2016.
Paul Clarke
And then you followed a somewhat similar path in 2021 with Savoia, and I should note, I've made this mistake myself in the past of referring to Savoia as a vermouth. It's not, but it's close, it's an Americano. You introduced the Rosso in 2021, and then you followed up a couple of years later with an Orancio. Why did you decide that an Americano was the right path for you to follow after Italicus, and how did you put your own kind of imprint on it as you entered that category?
Giuseppe Gallo
Savoia Rosso Americano was something sitting there in the pipeline for quite a few years. And we all know what happened in 2020. I had a lot of time to spend at home, and I was going and revisiting all my old ideas and looking all of them, I thought that the Americano Rosso would be the one with more opportunities in the marketplace. Why? Because it's basically the perfect mix between the bitter from Milan and the vermouth from Turin in one bottle. And I want to do some research, and actually I found out that it was style of Americano vermouth or bitter vermouth, especially made by Italian distillery in Piedmont, for the export market in the US. Because in the US already in the late 1800s, American people, they had a tradition to drink this beverage, that Americans, they called 'cocktail', it was two words, where it was not yet available in Italy. Italy, it was no ice, it was no cocktail shaker, so when in America Jerry Thomas was already there, or Harry Johnson, like they were making a more bitter style of vermouth called Americano style, for the American markets. And I said, what about them trying to bring back this one, which makes together the perfect balance of bitter and vermouth. So a lot of people during the COVID, during the lockdown, they were making cocktails at home. They were having those virtual aperitif moments. So basically the Savoy Rosso Americano is that kind of liquid brand, which is designed to be one step away from your perfect classic cocktail at home. So with a bottle of Savoy Rosso Americano, with that liquid, you're adding a splash of gin and you have your perfect Negroni. You're adding a little bit of bourbon whiskey, you have your perfect Boulevardier or Manhattan. A splash of Prosecco, Champagne or soda water, you can have your Spritz or Sbagliato. Or with a little bit of orange juice, you make your Garibaldi. So for me, it was an opportunity to facilitate consumer at home to make the perfect aperitif of classic cocktail.
Paul Clarke
Right. Right. Right. And then, like we said, a couple of years later, you entered with an Orancio. And to be clear, you starting back in the 1970s, 1980s, some of the larger vermouth producers had introduced orange vermouths. This is in a similar mode, but it's still different. How did you kind of navigate that channel?
Giuseppe Gallo
The DNA had appealed for Savoia brand, as I worked for the vermouth brands for many, many years. Most of the vermouth brands, they only communicate about botanicals, correct? My aim with Savoia was like, "Yes, botanicals are important, but 80% in bottle it's wine. We're going to talk about the wine, and what kind of wine do we use?" So with the Rosso at the beginning, we decided to go with a Marsala fortified wine, 14 months aged in barrique cask, coming from Sicily. Then, with Orancio, spot on, it's exactly what you mentioned, during the 70s, 80s, it was this orange style of vermouth, and actually there was a brand available, and I remember flying back after my third or fourth year at Tales of the cocktail in New Orleans, having a layover in Dallas, Texas, going to this little liquor store, and finding this very dusty bottle of Cinzano Orancio at the bottom of the shelf. Like, you know, and the guy, he didn't even charge me because it was no price. He was there for many, many years. It's still in my collection today, but it was very popular back in the 70s and 80s to have an orange style of vermouth. So in 2023, what we did, alongside the Rosso, we developed a new style of Vermouth. Orancio is technically 100% vermouth and it's based on orange wine. Orange wine is the first ever wine you will be ever seen where the skin of the grapes and the juice, the most of the grapes, the left macerated together. So they have this orange color, orange hue. The base of Savoia Orancio is a combination of Malvasia and Ugni Blanc grapes, which they make orange wine, which they're giving a very specific acidity to the final liquid product.
Paul Clarke
Right, right. And then, you know, for all of these products, when you were sitting there, when you were developing them, you were with your notebook, you're kind of envisioning this bottle out there in the world. How did you anticipate bartenders using this, you know, especially with something like Italicus, which like you said, you're kind of carving out this unfamiliar category for modern bartenders. How did you see them using this in your head? And then years later, once it's actually out there in the bars, have you been surprised by some of the things that you've seen bartenders do with it?
Giuseppe Gallo
Absolutely. And with Italicus, when we started to work on the liquids, my clear idea was to work with white spirits. White spirits, I mean, a gin, a vodka. I'm sure it's going to work very well in a sort of a classic gin and tonic with a bergamot twist. I'm sure you can make a vodka martini or a vodka sour with a little bit of Italicus. But then what I discovered just after a couple of years, that it was this little restaurant in Austin, Texas, getting cases and cases of Italicus. So I actually reached out to them to ask them, like, how do you use Italicus? And I found out that they had this Italian Margarita, which was tequila and Italicus. I never thought Italicus would work with tequila. It actually had a perfect combination. Instead of an orange liqueur, it's a bergamot liquor. And it worked absolutely perfect. And still nowadays, the southern states like Nevada, Arizona, Texas, our number one sales driver is the Margarita with Italicus.
Paul Clarke
Really? Wow. That's amazing.
Giuseppe Gallo
And it was not planned. So this is the kind of nice surprise that coming when bartenders, you let them work with the creativity. We have this cocktail competition called the Art of Italicus Aperitivo Challenge, where we want bartenders to focus on creativity, because sometimes it's better than a market research. Bartenders, they know so much about flavor. They know so much about aromas. They can give us a very interesting insight. How we can mix our liquid. Our job as a brand, or my job when I developed the liquid, it was actually to make a liquid which will be good on its own. That they can work in cocktails. But after that, not even a year passed by, I'm in New York, I'm going for a last drink at the famous Dead Rabbit. And my dear friend, Jack McGarry, is there behind the bar. And before we go, it's like, let's have a little night cap before you go. And it does in the little glass, half mezcal and half Italicus. And we have this little drink, and wow, this is delicious, so well balanced. You know, you have the citrus aroma of the bergamot with smokiness from mezcal. And I'm asking Jack, how are we going to call this? And his answer with a big smile was, "Well, mezcal and Italicus is Mezcalicus." What a perfect name. Now the Mezcalicus, as far as I remember, is over 50 cocktail menu across the world. That's that kind of a very nice surprise for a brand founder to find out throughout the journey of a brand.
Paul Clarke
And then similarly, you know, this past summer at the New Orleans Spirits Competition, this is where Orancio took a top award home. And, you know, I'm curious about this as well, because like you said, you're building from this kind of flavor profile that was somewhat familiar from the '70s and '80s, but you're bringing in that orange wine component. So it's going to be very, very different. This is the newest one out there. How have you seen this being approached or incorporated by bartenders? I'm curious to see how that's being used.
Giuseppe Gallo
The first one is that they're starting obviously being an orange wine. Most of the bartenders or consumers, they associate with rose wine. So I saw in some places doing a rose spritz. So Savoia Orancio with rosé sparkling wine. And actually really nice, really delicious. It's completely different from a standard spritz that we know today. But the other one which was very interesting, it was two different cocktails that I tasted in New Orleans this year. One, it was again a Margarita with Orancio. And sometimes I don't think about it, but you know, the Orancio, it has yuzu, saffron, orange peel. So there is all these botanicals that actually they help in the Margarita. But the most interesting one it was an event that we did with the Shak’Her with Julie Reiner, L. P., Roberta Mariani, that they were there. It was Pink Negroni with a gin, Savoia Orancio, and Italicus. Like you know, so there is so many different ways it can be applied. My main goal when I work on liquid is still I want to make sure that the liquid on its own is good enough. When the bartenders and mixologists, they're starting to mix in cocktails, they can really elevate the flavor to the next level.
Paul Clarke
Now, it's been almost 10 years since you first introduced Italicus and four years, close to five years since Savoia first came out. Do you anticipate building this out further in the years ahead? Where do you go from here now that you have this foundation?
Giuseppe Gallo
Creativity, it's like an ocean. It's limitless. Actually, I left the corporate world over 10 years ago, a secure job to take a risk to start my own venture. Because I want to make sure that I can express myself, my ideas at the best as possible. So my ultimate goal always will be to keep innovating in the spirits industry. I cannot disclose too much today, but we're not going to stop here. The idea is to keep building the brands that we already have, Italicus, Savoia Rosso and Orancio, but always looking the market opportunity, the commercial opportunity. Listen to bartenders, they are the expert, they are the gatekeeper for us and understand where are we going from here? What's next? And how we can anticipate that trend in order to be on top of the wave and ready to serve when the trend is going to take off. Today everybody is talking about Spritz, correct? This probably the last three or four years is one of the top cocktails. Well, when I launched Italicus in 2016, I had no certainty the Spritz would take off, but I had a gut feeling that definitely like at some point we could serve the wave of the Spritz around the world. And that's what happened with Italicus and Savoia nowadays.
Paul Clarke
Giuseppe, it's always wonderful to talk to you. Congratulations on the success with these brands. I look forward to seeing you again in person very soon.
Giuseppe Gallo
Paul, thank you so much for the time and looking forward to share an aperitif or Spritz very soon with you.
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Paul Clarke
You can find out more about Giuseppe Gallo and his work on his website italspirits.com. And you can find him on Instagram @pepegallo1. You'll find those links in this episode's notes.
And that's it for this episode. Subscribe to Radio Imbibe on your favorite podcast app to keep up with all our future episodes. We've got tons of recipes and articles for you online on our website, imbibemagazine.com. Keep up with us day to day on Instagram, Pinterest, Threads, and Facebook. And if you're not already a subscriber to the print and/or digital issues of Imbibe, then here's the perfect opportunity to change that. Just follow the link in this episode's notes and we'll be happy to help you out.
I'm Paul Clarke. This is Radio Imbibe. Catch you next time.